(Quotes taken from:- Enos Phillips --THE POINTER AND HIS ANCIENT HERITAGE)

(Ch 2 pg 21 from Phillips' book) "At the very beginning I wish to state that I have no patience with statements emanating from any source that the Pointer was descended from the hound. Buffon alone suggests the possibility of a common ancestor, and even this suggestion might be altered in light of the Mendel theory. Statements by authors of some of our early dog books credited the English Pointer's development to a hound pointer cross is absurd and both Arkwright and Rawdon Lee explode this theory."
"To accuse probably the greatest of all Pointers, Price's Bang of being heavy in hound blood (tri-color and coat of two lengths) is an admission of ignorance in light of the facts. To attach a stigma (coat of two lengths) to Alford's John is only possible if one is intent on ignoring the evidence which I will present."

Reaching the time of Thornton several things can be proven--that he did his share of crossing, not at all wrong in those years, since most men did as much to try to achieve better dogs for any use--that his dogs carried the coat of two lengths and often three colors,---that his dogs became well stablized in quality and type, so that when his kennel closed his remaining dogs entered the kennels of Thomas Webb Edge, of Strelly. Mr Edge did not discard the tri-color, nor the coat of two lengths, but he did weed out black, lemon, or orange, keeping liver on white dogs, which he became known for. May the reader keep this in mind as we move forward in time, as proof of why we still today get a coat of two lengths and tri-colored dogs.

When Thornton's dogs entered the Edge of Strelly breeding line, Mr Edge sought Pointers with intense style and superb nose, and valued this blood line to go forward with. The Edge line was probably not the only line of distinction in England, but we, here, have no records to tell who else had good dogs at that time. Mr Edge kept adequate records to pass on to his successors who are listed below. The auction of his dogs following his death sent many of these breeders to the auction to bring home at least one dog. Lord Pilkington sent over records behind the dogs he sold to American sportsmen. His records go 8 and 9 generations back to the Edge dogs they all bought at the auction. This indeed is to us a treasure to have and use, for it made possible all the pedigree charts which go back to Edge, with proof as to who owned each dog. If not for George Pilkington being that thorough, diligent, and generous in his records sent, we would know nothing from the years before registry. What we learned from these pedigrees is that all of our early imports carry back to Edge, therefore champions made from these same imports go back to Edge.

By the time we reached the "FOUR PILLARS" -HAMLET,DRAKE, BOUNCE AND MAJOR- there is now a breed, even if dogs varied in color, size, bulk, and looks. It is rather interesting that Mr Arkwright did not include BROCKTON'S BOUNCE in his considerations for merit in the other Pillars. Should we imagine it was because Bounce was the grandsire to Bang, who was certain to be crossed with Foxhound, and Bounce went back to the Edge of Strelly dogs with that surprising third color, but then so did Hamlet go back to Edge, through Lang's Fan and Lang's Frank, so it would have been possible for Hamlet to carry the third color also. Since Drake and Major seem to be far removed from Bang in breeding, he apparently felt comfortable with them but they too went back to Edge, and carried the color potential. We are inclined to think that since Bang was a dog built with the heavy structure carried by Bounce, the liver and white color, it was easier for Mr Arkwright to associate Bounce with Bang, who was mighty different than Hamlet.

(Phillips) "To accuse probably the greatest of all Pointers, Price's Bang of being heavy in hound blood (tri-color and coat of two lengths) is an admission of ignorance in light of the facts. To attach a stigma (coat of two lengths) to Alford's John is only possible if one is intent on ignoring the evidence which I will present."
"At that time the greatest Pointers ever known were in Devonshire and to Arkwright the greatest stigma one could apply was to term them houndy. In his work were two notable omissions. First his statement that he suspected the get of all tri-colored pointers because none of the early writers mentioned them, and second his careful omission of Thornton's reference to the Duke of Hamilton's half breed---both carefully omitted to strengthen his case."

(Pg 33 of Phillips) In the February 1943 issue of Dog World (American) Dr GD Blair (Black Fells knls) writing under the heading of Tri-Colored Pointers, stated---"There is a general admission that the Spanish Pointer was crossed with Foxhound to develop the present day Pointer in England. It is widespread that more hound blood has been injected recently, (in America), say within the last 15-30 years. No old time Pointer breeder that I have talked to has advocated the acceptance of tri-color in Pointers and that all tri-color pups should be destroyed at once"
"To me (Phillips) this is a ridiculous statement. I owned my first Pointer in 1894 or 95. Since that time I have had a great many, and in the past have had some forty in my kennels at one time. The best bird dogs I have owned stemmed from Comanche Frank and showed the golden cheek markings, hallmark of the famous Webb Edge strain. Price's Bang, who founded what is today the only strain of pointers either here or in England which can match their ancestors in form and performance." (Dorothy's note---Methinks Mr Phillips should stick to his own side of the Atlantic on this particular point, lest he create an international rift as to which lines of descent are the best)

(back to Phillips) "Arkwright in his work questioned the blood of dogs of such markings. He gave as his chief reason that no one mention was made of them in the old books. He, like others, omitted certain evidence. His marvellous book was influenced by his apparent dislike of the dogs of Devonshire with their golden cheek markings and what he wrote injured their reputation."
"In Cynographia Britannica 1805 Sydenham Edwards writes this of the Spanish Pointer---"Head, large indent between the eyes, ears thin, loose and hanging down, of moderate length, coat short and smooth, color dark brown, or liver and white, red and white, black, black and white, sometimes tanned about the face and eyes, and often thickly speckled with small spots on white ground, tail smooth and wiry"